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ING Is Safe

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Sky and Virgin Kiss & Make Up

Published in Your Money on 9 October 2008

ING now owns both Kaupthing Edge and Heritable Bank. We tell you why it is safer than both RBS and HBOS.

In an unprecedented move on Wednesday, Dutch bank ING agreed to move £2.5 billion in UK deposits from Kaupthing Edge and £538 million from Landsbanki owned Heritable bank over to Dutch shores.

So, it’s almost business as usual on all sides, and when the remaining creases are ironed out, all 182,000 customers will be able to transact through their respective websites as normal.

Some may argue that this game of happy families could prove dangerous for new and old customers alike.

However, I believe Darling wouldn’t let anyone jump out of the frying pan and into the fire, and whether you’re an ING veteran or Kaupthing refugee, I think ING is a pretty safe haven. Here’s why:

A brief history

ING Direct launched in 2003, and was one of the pioneers of the no-frills savings account market. An absence of high street branches meant the bank could offer higher interest rates, and thousands of customers quickly poured in their money to take advantage.

However, ING was later criticised for failing to keep up with several interest rate rises, with disgruntled customers soon fleeing the bank as quickly as they flocked in.

Ironically, those same savers who pulled their cash out of ING to chase higher rates offered by Icelandic banks could now be back where they started, after being unceremoniously dumped back with the bank.

Weighing up the scales

Admittedly, ING is no stranger to losses. Back in August, the bank reported a €44 million (£35 million) writedown on bad investments such as sub-prime mortgages. Quarterly profits were also down from €2.56 billion (£2 billion) to €1.92 billion (£1.5 billion), all contributing to a share price which has fallen 50% this year, and now at its lowest level since 2003.

The real thorn in ING’s side is the €22 billion it holds in ‘Alt-A’ mortgages, which sit somewhere between prime and sub-prime, and could still prove a rather sore point for the bank in times to come.

However, ING says that its potential credit losses are unlikely to provide the drama seen by other banks. In addition, losses reported were actually better than expected, and ING remains a strong player in the short term money markets.

Its credit default swap (CDS) rate, which measures how risky a bank is, is low, measuring 137.8 basis points as at 12.30pm this afternoon. Although this is deemed more risky than Barclays (129.2) and Lloyds TSB (104.2), it is still safer than RBS (205.0) and HBOS (235.4).

Just to put these figures in perspective, the three dissolved Icelandic banks were trading upwards of 2,400 basis points before they went bust.

In addition, ratings agency Moody’s has given ING an Aa1 rating for long term bank deposits, one below the top possible rating, while its financial strength is rated as ‘B’ (on a scale of A to E), which Moody’s says offers ‘good financial fundamentals, and a predictable and stable operating environment’.

Standard and Poor’s assessment of ING is similar, and gives the bank an AA rating, which it says means, ‘The obligor's capacity to meet its financial commitment on the obligation is very strong.’

Its latest dividend was also up 12%, and although its share price has tumbled this year, in Europe it has still fared better than Lloyds TSB, Alliance and Leicester, RBS and HBOS.

Of course, there are a few things readers should be aware of. Firstly, ratings agencies themselves have come under fire for failing to reflect early enough the worsening market conditions.

In addition, some argue that CDS prices have been distorted by fear, and do not reflect the true situation. This is somewhat true, but I still think both measures provide an excellent indicator of how robust a company is.

In short, I think ING is safe. After all, the bank made £1.5 billion last quarter.

Motives for mergers

For those still left wondering why the bank has made this bold move, if you think that ING was playing the Good Samaritan, you may want to think again. Back in September, the bank announced it was planning to double its retail balances of €318 billion (£254 billion) within five years.

The Icelandic takeover was perhaps just an easy way of acquiring new money. The total sum of £3 billion from Iceland may be a drop in the ocean for ING’s ambitious targets, but it’s a start.

Of course, there is still one potential problem. This week, the threshold for the Dutch deposit guarantee scheme was increased to €100,000 (approx. £77,700), providing greater peace of mind for savers with all three banks.

But, with the scheme offering more protection than the FSCS in the UK – if (and this is a very big if) ING did go bust and customers needed to claim, they would have to seek all of their money from the Dutch scheme.

Potentially, this could create a problem if Holland decided to ‘do an Iceland’ and refuse to pay out to customers outside its shores.

However, you have to remember that Iceland is in a unique situation, facing debts 12 times larger than its GDP. With the country itself facing bankruptcy, it’s hard to imagine how the Icelandic government plan to pay its own customers back, let alone anyone else.

In addition, it’s worth remembering that if you have savings with more than one of these institutions, your total savings cannot exceed €100,000 in order to qualify for full compensation.

However, with Darling doing everything bar don a Lycra suit this week in his attempts to play the superhero, you could also argue that all compensation schemes are redundant anyway and the Treasury would save the day regardless of any guarantees.

Running for safety

At the end of the day, it is a question of risk. ING currently offers 6.5% to new customers, including a bonus of 1.66% for one year. If you’re more interested in safety, you should take a look at the options outlined in this article, all of which provide 100% protection for your money.

Perhaps lessons ought to be learnt from all this. Rates aren’t always everything, and as we have seen, while the Icelandic Goliaths were pushing hard to attract new customers, ING’s David was able to maintain reasonable growth while managing to plug the leak of defecting customers.

And we all know who won that battle…

More: Darling Backs Icesave / Big Banks For Safe Savings

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Comments

The opinions expressed here are those of the individual writers and are not representative of The Motley Fool. If you spot any comments that are unsuitable hit the flag to alert our moderators.

ossigeno 09 Oct 2008, 3:55pm

How much Kaupthing Isle of Man money was involved with this? Because the day afterwards the Isle of Man operation was put into administration. The two operations seemed to be deeply intangled.

MonsterMixer 09 Oct 2008, 5:30pm

"ING Is Safe" is a pretty big statement!

Or was an "r" missed off at the end?!

TMFSUZY 09 Oct 2008, 5:36pm

Lol MonsterMixer,

Yep, that's a headline, not a typo ;-)

ING is safer than quite a few of the British high street banks, though if you want to know the safest of the high street lot, I'd throw my money into HSBC sharpish (there's always Northern Rock and NS&I of course).

I guess when it comes down to it, it's all a matter of opinion...or perhaps just how big your mattress is!

Szu

Robin22Davis 09 Oct 2008, 7:27pm

When you say "182,000 customers will be able to transact through their respective websites as normal", does this mean using the Edge site, or do we need to wait until we get contacted by ING for credentials to their site?

After logging into my Edge account, looks pretty much business as usual. I haven't done anything there though just in case it gets messed up and I fall down a crack somewhere.

elephant888 09 Oct 2008, 10:03pm

Oh, well, if Moody's and S&P say they're OK, they MUST be, I mean, those guys would never just say whatever the people paying them want them to say, would they... would they?

dannychandi 09 Oct 2008, 10:25pm

I had a fixed deposit with Kaupthing Edge at 7.15% interest for 12 months? Will ING honour this rate?

colinpayne1966 10 Oct 2008, 9:56am

Incredible guys...how can those at the fool carp on about safety so much?

You have consistently recommended the Edge account - I even heard one of your crew on sky this morning bemoaning the authorities...he actually said they should have been wary of high interest rate offers!!!!....perhaps you should also have been similarly way and avoided some rather foolish advice recently?

HenryScottTuke 10 Oct 2008, 10:11am

In the 2008 article 'Is Saving With Icelandic Banks Safe?' Jane Baker February stated 'If you have already put your savings with Icesave or Kaupthing Edge I don't think you should panic. To repeat, both banks have a top-end Aa3 rating. And anyway, just as savings in UK banks are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS), deposits held in the two Icelandic banks have equivalent protection'.

This post is not to denegrate Jane, but it does prove that we make assumptions partly on the information we can obtain. When perfectly safe banks have a run on withdrawals, problems may ensue. How many people who's accounts have been moved from Kaupthing to ING will transfer their money out, 75% - 100% ? Will this move not pursuade current ING members to move as well ? Things work well under normal conditions, but these are not normal conditions. Sales of home safes have increased dramatically. No wonder.

2hf 10 Oct 2008, 10:23am

One thing that does not seem to have been mentioned is the rate of interest on the Kaupthing savings accounts taken over by ING.
ING is offering 6.5% which includes a bonus of 1.66% for one year for new customers (down to 4.88% after a year)(a bit of a con) whereas Kaupthing was 6.36% and no strings.
If the Kaupthing accounts are to be integrated into ING savings, then when does the year start?
The date of transfer or when the Kaupthing account was opened.
If it is when the Kaupthing account was opened, then a lot of us will be forced to start looking for a better rate savings account PDQ.

Beckstones 10 Oct 2008, 11:43am

"ING is offering 6.5% which includes a bonus of 1.66% for one year for new customers (down to 4.88% after a year)(a bit of a con) whereas Kaupthing was 6.36% and no strings"
Do you still think there were no strings 2hf?

cornishpride 10 Oct 2008, 8:10pm

I very recently used KE to "spread the risk". I really don't care what rate ING offers me. When I consider what many others have totally lost, (excuse split infinitive !), I'm just glad to have the FSA umbrella.

I'm in the middle of a very large insurance claim against Direct Line. Does anyone know how secure they are ? If they don't survive, is my claim down the drain ?

soulsaver1 11 Oct 2008, 12:26am

"...In addition, it’s worth remembering that if you have savings with more than one of these institutions, your total savings cannot exceed €100,000 in order to qualify for full compensation."

I know what you mean... but the words don't mean it,really:-)
And you might want to point out to those lucky enough to have that kind of money, they may wish to leave a bit of headroom for interest...
AND ...We've now got euro compensation for sterling accounts, so we'll need to keep an eye on exchange rates.. !

soulsaver1 15 Oct 2008, 8:54am

CDS for Nationwide which seem to get overlooked on here:
280 (Oct 2) | 316.799 (Oct 8)

PessimisticBull 17 Oct 2008, 4:28pm

In short, I think ING is safe. After all, the bank made £1.5 billion last quarter.

ING are now predicting a loss for Q3 of E500m, are they still quite so safe?

darley2 19 Oct 2008, 1:44pm

Is this uncertainty never going to end. Just read an article in the paper saying that ING is in talks withe the Dutch government re a a possible capital injection. Their shares slumped by 27% on Friday!

Maybe the matress is the best place for money these days - only problem that it doesn't pay monthly interest, but at least it is safe!!

pinkhair 21 Oct 2008, 10:22am

Ok so for the first time in my life I have some decent savings (due to a a well timed house sale) and due to the recommendation of Fool I put (some not all - as already wary after Northern Rock) of my savings with Kaupthing Edge...

Worried during the Icelandic Banks disaster, but then felt relieved as ING took over and now don't know what to think about their government buying shares etc. Are they safe or not? As I am now looking for another house I really need quick access to the money and waiting for (any) government to refund the money would not be helpful.

I just need some really simple advice.
What should I do.
(most recently considering opening a building society account eg YBS)

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